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In it Together: tough calls and closures with Lien Ta & Shehzad Roopani

OpenTable’s webinar series, In it Together, tackles key topics facing the industry during the COVID-19 crisis. What does hospitality look like in a time of emergency? How can we support our communities today, both financially and emotionally? Hosted by OpenTable’s leadership team, the platform brings together restaurant leaders and experts to foster conversation and share advice during uncertain times. Register for free for upcoming webinars.

For restaurants, 2020 has been marked by government loan applications and business model overhauls, all strategies to weather the financially devastating COVID-19 storm. Now, six months into the pandemic, some operators are being forced to ask: when is it time to close for good?

In this week’s In it Together discussion, OpenTable CMO Jessica Jensen spoke with Lien Ta, co-owner of Los Angeles’ All Day Baby and the recently shuttered Here’s Looking at You, and Shehzad Roopani, CEO of Peli Peli South African Kitchen. In their conversation, the restaurateurs opened up about the tough calls they’ve made during the pandemic and what led them ultimately to decide to close a restaurant.

“You have to look at the data and accept the data, and take away the emotions,” said Roopani. “There are risks you can appreciate and understand, but if you can no longer manage that risk, you have to say no. Otherwise, all you’re going to do is disappoint a lot of people.”

Why some concepts flex, and others falter

A restaurant’s ability to survive the pandemic may come down to dollars and cents, but a host of factors influence income: location, concept, and longevity, to name a few. As Ta summed it up, “Nobody was coming to Here’s Looking at You, but some people were still coming to All Day Baby.”

Ta made the difficult decision to close Here’s Looking at You a day before its fourth birthday. The restaurant had made a name for itself as a sit-down, celebratory experience, with only 11 tables and a 15-seat bar. As one of the first boutique restaurants in Koreatown, the centralized location made it a perfect meeting place for groups coming from opposite sides of town. But “with shelter-in-place rules, people weren’t traveling all over the place for something in a to-go container,” Ta said.

All Day Baby was newer, having opened just last fall. “The allure and the joy was still being defined,” Ta explained. After being mandated to close, her team sold biscuit sandwiches out of a takeout window, allowing guests to select a pickup time and avoid lines. Guests who had never visited the restaurant before the pandemic came to the takeout window and embraced the experience, allowing All Day Baby to win over a new clientele.

Like Ta, Roopani operated both fine dining (Peli Peli) and fast casual (Peli Peli Kitchen) businesses, and knew with the onset of the pandemic that the former wouldn’t be sustainable. “We were [already] very vulnerable,” he said. “We’ve been playing defense for a long time.”

They laid off everyone but their executive staff, who took a variable compensation structure, and enough employees to conduct off-premise sales. The team shifted their focus to takeout and delivery and developed a more efficient menu of less expensive dishes.

For Roopani, refocusing the business also meant establishing more clarity around the brand. Though the South African influence hovered around Peli Peli since its 2009 launch, it was never central to the concept. Now, that’s changed: the new Peli Peli South African Kitchen focuses on culture as a pivotal part of the dining experience.

“Culture is the new technology,” Roopani said. “We see people over the next five years gravitating to ideals in the human component.”

Renegotiate – and reimagine – everything

In developing a new concept and trying to keep his business afloat, Roopani leveraged every possible tactic. In addition to prioritizing takeout and delivery, his team partnered with Kroger to sell prepared boxed meals in local stores. (“It was a business model we were excited about, but I’d be lying if I told you we made any money off of it.”) When they did finally decide to shift their business model, Roopani said, “we renegotiated everything.”

They shifted to a variable model, paying vendors based on sales. They restructured leases. They worked to set expectations with all business partners, removing some of the constant pressure of uncertainty. Now, Roopani is committed to eliminating any fixed costs that his company can’t manage.

“If I continue, I’m going to wake up in January with more liabilities,” he explained. “I’d be back in the same defense model that I was in prior to COVID. I’m not going to repeat history – my executive team and I are taking a hard, critical approach.”

Inflated food prices have also required significant adjustment. Pork supply is limited and expensive, leading Ta’s chef partner Jonathan Whitener to buy beef ribs instead. The cost of to-go containers, bags, and cookie sleeves has skyrocketed – all things she didn’t have to buy in abundance before. At Peli Peli, Roopani has shifted his guest communications to promote takeout over delivery in order to avoid the costs associated with the latter.

For Ta, shifting her business model has also meant looking for new ways to generate sales and keep her staff employed. She reached out to programs employing small restaurants to cook for front-line workers, but they were oversubscribed – so she decided to create her own.

Currently, her team is working with the social service nonprofit El Nido Family Centers, preparing meals for a housing community in Watts. “They are providing us with something to do and another means of keeping our lights on.”

Building a healthier industry

Ta and Roopani both agreed that despite all of the current challenges, this moment presents an opportunity to transform the industry for the future. “We can look at this as a really large reset of an industry that’s a little fragile and broken anyway,” said Ta.

Roopani wants to see more protections for small, independent restaurants. Since restaurants often work with larger vendors, they aren’t always able to defend themselves in the face of conflict – legal battles are too expensive and time-consuming. Without regulatory protections, any adversity puts their business in danger.

For Ta, the future is political. She appeared on video during the recent Democratic National Convention to tell her story as a small business owner during the pandemic, and she’s trying to raise awareness about voting. Also on her mind? Wage disparity and tipping.

“If we are to think about this in a large way, do we really need to be on this tipping model?” she asked. “Can we pay the creatives in the back the same way we pay creatives in the front? We’ve all seen what it’s like to lose our jobs. We all need to think more about how we can truly sustain the industry.”

In it Together: taking on the insurance industry with Naomi Pomeroy & Robert J. Nelson

After months of shutdowns due to the coronavirus pandemic, restaurants have looked to their insurance policies for financial help – only to be denied coverage for claims. In response, many operators are taking legal action to recoup what they feel they’re owed.

In this week’s In it Together discussion, OpenTable’s Jenna Swigert spoke with Naomi Pomeroy, the chef and restaurateur behind Portland’s Beast, and her San Francisco Bay Area-based attorney Robert J. Nelson, of Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP. In conversation, they delved into Pomeroy’s class action lawsuit and the steps she’s taken against her insurance company, as well as your rights as a restaurateur and what “business interruption” really means.

“I’ve been really thinking about the industry overall and wanting to make it a better industry in the future,” said Pomeroy. “The only way to do that is if we have an industry to make better, and that means holding insurance companies accountable. I’ve been paying into this [policy] for the 13 years I’ve been open – for me, it’s a matter of principle.”

Why restaurants are taking action

Naomi’s restaurants, Beast and Expatriate, are both tiny establishments, and Beast specializes in prix-fixe, communal dining. When the government ordered restaurants to shut down in March, she had to close both spots completely. After more than a decade of earning close to $1.5 million in revenue, suddenly her income was zero – “through no fault of my own,” she emphasized.

When her insurance company rejected her claim, a friend connected Pomeroy with Nelson and his team at Lieff Cabraser, who have spent the past 30 years suing large companies in industries like pharmaceuticals, oil, and tobacco. In the case of Pomeroy and other restaurateurs, Lieff Cabraser decided to get involved because they saw people being taken advantage of.

“Folks have been paying business interruption insurance for many years, and insurance companies are saying, ‘sorry, you’re not covered,’ no matter the policy,” Nelson explained. “We felt strongly that people had been paying these premiums, and finally an occasion had arisen that required them to close – they should be entitled to whatever their insurance policy provides.”

What they’ll argue

While attorneys’ arguments will vary between policies, companies, and clients, there are a couple of key points Nelson hopes to communicate.

The first is that COVID-19 is not necessarily the cause of restaurant closures – instead, it was civil authorities that ordered businesses to shut down. Thus, it’s the government’s action, not the pandemic itself, that led to business losses.

Another argument concerns the question of physical damage to property. Insurance companies insist that unless an operator had COVID-19 in their restaurant, they did not suffer physical damage. Nelson’s point of view is that the same operator did suffer loss of use of their property, since they were ordered to close. Since an overwhelming majority of policies address physical damage or loss of use, he believes the argument has the potential to succeed.

How to get involved – and what’s required

With restaurateurs pulled in a million different directions, time and money are precious. Pomeroy shared that joining the lawsuit required little of either: in total, she’s only spent a few hours talking to attorneys and sending over documents, and she pays nothing unless she wins the suit. “We don’t get paid unless Naomi gets paid,” Nelson said.

As a first step, Nelson recommends talking to an attorney, regardless of the policy you have. He’s working with some restaurants that have business interruption insurance and virus exclusions and others that don’t, so don’t worry that your policy or circumstance precludes you from taking action. An attorney can advise what makes your individual policy more or less favorable for a case.

From there, you’ll need to tender a claim under your policy, which the insurance company will deny. Once an attorney has the tender and denial letter, they have what they need to bring a lawsuit against the company.

It’s also important to know that a class-action lawsuit isn’t necessarily your best bet. A judge might not want to certify the class action, or maybe your insurance company is different from the ones currently being sued by a class. Again, an attorney can advise if it makes sense to bring your own case or join an existing one.

In general, Nelson said a class action is preferable “because it’s important to protect as many folks as we can.” Also, know that you don’t give up any potential gains by being part of a class. “Naomi is not going to get any less as a class representative – any settlement is based on her revenues and what she lost and what we can prove.”

What to expect

Right now, it’s still early days for insurance lawsuits, and it’s impossible to know what will happen. So far, two decisions have come down, neither of which are helpful for restaurants – but those are too few, early, and opaque to predict the future for these cases in court.

Nelson said his team is filing several insurance-related lawsuits each week, and while he can’t make any promises that they will prevail, he’s committed for the long haul. “I wouldn’t get into it if I didn’t think there was a reasonable chance of success,” he said. “I’m hopeful we’ll be able to provide relief to the many restaurateurs out there who are struggling through no fault of their own.”

Courts, like restaurants, have been affected by the pandemic. Lawyers are not holding jury trials, and courts are on hold throughout the country. When they do reopen, criminal cases have priority. Nelson would love to see results from these cases in 2021, but realistically he thinks decisions will come down in 2022.

For Pomeroy, the timing isn’t the point. “I paid for a service for the entirety of the time my business was open, and I haven’t received what I was promised,” she said. “I’m happy to wait it out and keep having these conversations. If a few people listening today join a class action or do an individual suit, our jobs have been done. We have to make a lot of noise.”

Learn more by downloading the guide to Justice for Restaurants by Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein.

In it Together: reinventing the industry with Andrew Zimmern & Rohini Dey

OpenTable’s webinar series, In it Together, tackles key topics facing the industry during the COVID-19 crisis. What does hospitality look like in a time of emergency? How can we support our communities today, both financially and emotionally? Hosted by our COO Andrea Johnston, the platform brings together restaurant leaders and experts to foster conversation and share advice during uncertain times. Register for free for upcoming webinars.

The only constant for restaurants during the coronavirus pandemic is change: closures, partial reopenings, new regulations and protocols, and (in some cases) re-closures. Operators have been forced to adapt at lightning speed, from food and beverage programs and business models to guest interactions.

That’s a tremendous burden on restaurants – but it may also present an opportunity. In this week’s In it Together discussion, OpenTable’s Andrea Johnston spoke with James Beard award-winning chef, TV host, and social justice advocate Andrew Zimmern and restaurateur, James Beard Foundation Trustee, and women’s advocate Rohini Dey, PhD. Together, they explored the future of the restaurant industry and shared ideas on how to take this moment to reflect and re-emerge stronger than before.

“Food people are the best people in the world,” said Zimmern. “Even when our own house is burning down, we’re still trying to think of ways to help the people who are in the building with us. Every month I see new reasons to be hopeful.”

Reinventing… the menu

Dey said she had always offered entrees grudgingly at her Chicago restaurant Vermilion, which melds Indian and Latin American cuisines, preferring formats that allow diners to taste a variety of flavors. After reopening this month following the COVID-19 closure, she’s finally offering a menu that suits her style: more small- and medium-sized plates, unbundled accompaniments, and less ceremony overall.

“Now it’s all about what the guest wants,” she said. “Not the chef model.”

Additionally, her young, diverse team has been actively involved in recent protests for racial justice. Together, they introduced Beyond Borders, a series spotlighting phenomenal cuisines that have historically been marginalized in the U.S.

Reinventing… the hospitality

Zimmern is involved in a number of restaurant businesses, and each has responded differently to the pandemic – one shutting down entirely and others focusing on contactless delivery, takeout, and patio dining. “We have to engage with the diner in a new way,” he said.

His five-step plan for the future? “Save the cash, pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot.” Instead of fixating on when things go “back to normal,” he advised thinking of this time as an opportunity to be creative in terms of operations.

As an example, Zimmern pointed to robotics. A couple of years ago, he was Twitter-shamed for profiling a restaurant that used robotics. Today, hundreds of robot-assisted restaurants are on the rise as a strategy to facilitate contactless food delivery. “Everything should be on the table to maximize dollars.”

Reinventing… the business model

With restaurant revenues slashed, the question of how to maximize dollars is top of mind for chefs and operators. Many have already renegotiated leases, reduced the size of their team, and moved to leaner, more efficient menus. What now?

Dey listed four ways restaurants can adapt their business models to thrive in the future: delivery and curbside service; off-site dining, including pop-ups and collaborations; retail products, such as grocery; and experiences, moving food service into unexpected spaces like art galleries.

Zimmern agreed that with more people cooking at home, grocery and retail present growth opportunities. “Everyone’s saying, ‘where do I get that rice, or that pot?’ The ready-to-eat space has a lot of promise.”

Reinventing… the supply chain

Not only chefs, but small farmers and purveyors are struggling to stay afloat during the pandemic. Zimmern noted that with the government banning some work visas, “there will be no one to pick tomatoes in Tennessee or crabs in Maryland or grapes in California.” He called for more protection for immigrant workers.

Additionally, many small farms raise specialty products (think Wagyu beef) that are not available in supermarkets but do go to restaurants. “We need to think about not only what we are raising but where we are serving it,” Zimmern said.

Take seafood, for example. According to Zimmern, 75 to 85 percent of seafood that’s harvested is sold in restaurants, not markets. “The seafood industry has basically gone dark,” he said. Maintaining a healthy supply chain throughout and beyond the coronavirus pandemic will require awareness, action, and resolve from the food industry.

Reinventing… the pay structure

Despite living in survival mode, social justice is still top of mind for restaurant owners and employees. Dey moved away from the tip credit model in her restaurant, aiming for more equity across the front and back of the house, and also plans to introduce a surcharge to invest in employee education. “We want to pay our employees better despite the higher cost,” she said.

Zimmern is encouraged, too. He predicted that in a few years, the pay structure and financial equity structure in restaurants will be radically different from the current reality.

The coffee trade makes a good case study. Zimmern explained that Starbucks was able to grow because of its fair trade policy, and customers got used to paying $4 for a cup instead of 50 cents. “We’re going to see the same thing in this country when it comes to food,” he said. “Gone are the days when we deflate the cost of a menu item. We’re going to have to pay farmers what it costs for a chicken and pass that onto the customer.”

Both Zimmern and Dey indicated that now is a time to be innovative and bold, not fearful. “The whole creative destruction right now gives us a degree of freedom,” said Dey. “I’m taking my chances.”

In it Together: reopening and the guest experience with Lynn Juang & Juan Correa

OpenTable’s webinar series, In it Together, tackles key topics facing the industry during the COVID-19 crisis. What does hospitality look like in a time of emergency? How can we support our communities today, both financially and emotionally? Hosted by our COO Andrea Johnston, the platform brings together restaurant leaders and experts to foster conversation and share advice during uncertain times. Register for free for upcoming webinars.

Across the globe, restaurants are slowly opening their doors to diners, whether through pickup and delivery services, partial-capacity dining rooms, or outdoor spaces. For many operators, that means adopting their business, brand, and concept to a new and constantly changing reality.

In this week’s In it Together discussion, OpenTable’s Andrea Johnston spoke with Lynn Juang, COO of hospitality creative agency Brand Bureau, and Juan Correa, the New York restaurateur behind Llama Inn and Llama San. Together, they dove into best practices for reopening – keeping brand and design top of mind.

“We are social beings – we crave connection and interaction,” said Juang. “Restaurants, bars, and cafes are here to stay in some way, shape, or form. Why do people go out to eat and drink? We have to identify those core drivers and start to think about more creative ways to answer [that need] in a new situation.”

Adapt your menu to new circumstances

“We don’t like the takeout business,” Correa laughed. “But it’s going to be part of the new normal. We’re going to have to live with that and get much better at it.”

When NYC restaurants were first ordered to shut down, Correa’s top concern was for his staff’s safety and financial well-being. A few weeks ago, he started takeout and delivery so that he could keep paying employees and keep the businesses afloat. That shift required considerable changes to his Peruvian menu, crafted by his chef and partner Erik Ramirez.

“Erik cooks in a specific manner, and traditionally our food hasn’t traveled very well,” he said. “We were nervous about customers receiving something that didn’t meet [our] standards.” They shortened their menus to highlight dishes that would travel well (think quinoa salad over ceviche) and reduce food waste. The updated menu also reflected a range of prices to accommodate a wide audience of guests.

Be as nimble and flexible as possible

Juang’s advice to clients has been to treat this period as one long friends and family preview – to test a concept, see what happens, and be ready to test something else. Gauge how guests are responding to new offerings, and how they’re interacting with your space, food, and packaging. Solicit feedback and react to it.

“Some clients want to dip their toes into takeout, or open their façade to the street,” she said. “It can’t be at a high cost, because in a couple of weeks the guidelines might be different, or there could be another lockdown. It’s a hard balance, and being patient and flexible is key.”

Because future regulations remain uncertain, Juang prefers light lifts over big ones. Her clients are layering in new sanitation stations and maximizing space between tables, and some are even experimenting with design solutions like modular partitions and screens. But since any solution may have to be temporary, now may not be the time for a full redesign.

Reconsider staff roles and processes

For Correa, reopening means learning new health guidelines, including increased sanitation of surfaces, social distancing, staff health checks, and more. It also means rethinking their employees’ functions and responsibilities.

At Llama Inn, it’s all hands on deck – everyone pitches in with all tasks. At Llama San, roles are more precise, with one staff member clearing tables and another running food. For Correa, the latter model feels more appropriate to this moment. “How do we craft roles so we can minimize the exposure a given guest has to our staff?” he asked. He is looking at ways for guests to interact with only one or two employees per visit.

With evolving roles comes new processes. For example, guests at Llama San and Llama Inn will receive a single disposable menu printed front and back, along with a digital menu option for those who prefer not to touch a menu. Instead of a massive wine list, guests will see an abbreviated wine list that’s updated weekly.

Ultimately, these changes come down to learning to be hospitable while also being efficient. “With more options in front of them, it’s harder for guests to make up their minds, and they have more questions for servers,” he added. “We want to provide all the hospitality, but we also want to limit the time of exposure.”

Tell your story through a new medium

In addition to being a standout chef, Ramirez has excellent taste, Correa said. His partner brought in bamboo packaging for their takeout orders to make sure the food is presented well, and also prints cards that explain each dish – the ingredients, components, and how to assemble or reheat it if it gets cold.

“Our food is Peruvian and has a lot of context – clients are not necessarily familiar,” Correa said. For example, Llama Inn’s Lomo Saltado features hanger steak, a scallion crepe, and toppings like avocado and rocoto crema and is intended to be assembled before eating. “We’re just starting, but we’re trying to learn and listen to what guests are telling us.”

Communicate safety measures with humanity

For many operators, balancing the sterility of sanitation procedures with warm hospitality poses a challenge. Juang recommends a messaging approach that blends transparency and honesty with vulnerability.

“This is all new for everyone,” she said. “It’s being honest about what we know and what we don’t know, and what we’re doing based on the information we have. That brings humanity to communications. And that’s what we’re looking to do – to rebuild trust with everyone walking through our doors and eating our food and drinking our drinks.”

Start with a tight, well thought-out operation, and layer on personality around that. Also, be clear that safety is a two-way street, and restaurants have expectations of guests, too. That doesn’t mean plastering signs on every wall reminding guests to wash their hands, it means straightforward, warm messaging emphasizing that we’re all in this together.

Lindsey Autry: this isn’t a business you can do alone

The coronavirus pandemic has shown that for restaurants, community comes first – including staff, guests, and professional peers. Operators are quick to stand in solidarity and share struggles and successes. As part of OpenTable’s partnership with Top Chef’s Restaurant Wars, we tapped into that spirit of generosity, asking chefs to tell us about the ups and downs of their careers: lessons learned, mistakes made, and their personal evolution along the way. Hear their stories, get inspired, and find resources to help in uncertain times here.

Lindsay Autry grew up on her family’s orchard in rural North Carolina, preserving peaches and tomatoes and competing in cooking competitions with the local 4-H. Before long, she knew food was more than a hobby and enrolled in culinary school.

For more than a decade, she cut her teeth working with award-winning chef Michelle Bernstein in Florida and Mexico before earning the public’s attention as a finalist on Season 9 of Top Chef. In 2016, she opened her first restaurant, THE REGIONAL Kitchen & Public House in West Palm Beach, which marries Mediterranean flavors with her Southern roots. Here, Autry shares her early influences and why failure is the best teacher.

What’s the best advice you received early on?

My grandfather was a professional public speaker, and he would tell me to stand in my own shoes. At the time, I interpreted that as standing up for myself, but as I’ve gotten older, I’ve realized what he really meant was just to be yourself and be authentic. If you’re true to who you are as a person, things will come to you a bit easier.

What’s the best advice you’d give to another chef or restaurateur who’s opening their first restaurant?

To stay strong and know that it’s a lot harder than it appears on television. If you put your head down and work really hard, eventually it will pay off. This is a very mundane business, with a lot of action and repetition. You have to find a way to break it up.

Your team and your staff are the most important aspect of your career. As a young chef, I would feel like I was on an island. Now, I realize about 60% of my staff has been with me for 10 years, and I don’t know what I would do without them. To anyone starting out – develop your team, and know that this isn’t a business you can do alone.

I would think that as you’re taking on more projects like Top Chef, having that trust in your team becomes all the more important.

One of the hardest lessons to learn is delegating, to let go and trust other people to execute your vision and work. [My teammates] carry the weight of the restaurant when I have a day off. I just had a baby! It’s good to know that you have people you can lean on.

What has been the most exciting moment of your career?

Top Chef, for me, was terrifying, but it also has done so much for my career – accelerated it, and gave me exposure to be able to advance myself. Last year, I got to cook with Martha Stewart, which was definitely a bucket list for me. Usually I’m not someone who’s freaked out in front of celebrities, but I literally was speechless when I met her and made a fool of myself.

You mentioned that opportunities came your way after Top Chef. What were some of those?

It allowed me to get exposure not only nationally, but within my own community. A lot of people didn’t know I was a chef here. [After], people knew I was a serious chef that had experience.

What’s one of the biggest mistakes you’ve made in your career?

I always joke that I’ve had my heart broken by more restaurants than relationships. It’s a really risky business – there are a lot of things you can control, but there are things that are kind of out of your control, too.

I waited a long time [to open my own place] because I knew what the failure rate was. Nine out of 10 restaurants close within their first year because the financial structure is really hard to sustain. Along the way, having restaurants close helped educate me to be able to open my own place with a little bit more confidence. It’s still a risk, but I’ve got 15 years under my belt of knowing what to try to avoid.

You opened The Regional in 2016. Now that you’re a chef-owner, how has that changed your approach to your work?

I have to do every aspect of the operation. In the past, when I was executive chef in a restaurant, I would really focus on the back of the house. Here, I worked with my other partner and some designers to design the actual space. I do all of the hiring for front-of-house management. I worry about maintenance contracts and bills. So now I worry about everything instead of just 60% of it!

As a younger chef, a lot of times you’re more focused on the creative aspect and you can be stubborn in your food. A lot of that is just immaturity and growth. Opening The Regional, I had a certain concept, but that has evolved over the past three-and-a-half years. The people that support my restaurant or the guests that come in – I’ve evolved to what they have been receptive to. They created what my business is now.

Can you tell us more about your Southern upbringing and how that influenced your culinary style?

I grew up in Fayetteville, North Carolina, which has a lot of military bases, but my family also had a peach orchard. I grew up in 4-H, so it was very Charlotte’s Web – pigs, goats, lamb. I started cooking competitions through 4-H.

My mom’s mother made incredible desserts, and my dad’s mother is actually from Greece, so I grew up with this weird mix of Southern and Greek food. In the ‘80s, grocery stores didn’t have feta or romaine lettuce, so my grandmother would make Greek food using what she had – spanakopita with cottage cheese because there was no feta. I’ve gone back to my roots here at the restaurant: We do a blend of Southern Mediterranean cuisine.

Since we are talking Top Chef, we’d love to hear more about these early 4-H cooking competitions.

They were all outdoor grilling, so you had to show that you could build a fire, and it was always based on a protein. I started when I was nine, and they didn’t separate you by age, so I would do cooking competitions with people from age nine to 19. I ended up winning the state level against 19-year-olds.

Sounds like good Top Chef training. When did you know you wanted to be a chef?

I wasn’t from a place that had fine-dining restaurants or even chefs in restaurants. When I was in high school, I came across a book for Johnson & Wales, and that was the first time that I ever thought, I could go to school to be a chef. Everybody was pushing me to go to Duke or UNC-Chapel Hill and be a pharmacist or a lawyer.

What were some of the most important things you learned working for Michelle Bernstein?

I was with Michelle for about 12 or 13 years. I credit so much of my career to being able to shadow her and see her level of professionalism and her drive. She was able to lead and be a strong woman and stay feminine. She was never apologetic for being a woman in a kitchen. She showed me that at the end of the day, we’re not female chefs, we’re just chefs.

Working with her, I was able to learn a lot not only about cooking, but also the business side and the public side – how to portray yourself in public and how to be on TV. We still talk all the time.

Photos courtesy of South Moon Photography